lizzyy commented on a post


I just finished All the Murmuring Bones by A.G. Slatter.... Definitely fits the bill!
lizzyy commented on a post


While reading Braiding Sweetgrass, Kimmerer mentioned that:
In Native ways of knowing, human people are often referred to as āthe younger brothers of Creation.ā We say that humans have the least experience with how to live and thus the most to learnāwe must look to our teachers among the other species for guidance. Their wisdom is apparent in the way that they live. They teach us by example. Theyāve been on the earth far longer than we have been, and have had time to figure things out. They live both above and below ground, joining Skyworld to the earth. Plants know how to make food and medicine from light and water, and then they give it.
And I noticed that a lot of the books form this beautiful stunning quest revolve around how plants can help us understand ourselves and our environment better. And it left me thinking how we should be learning from plants and animals, we are not above nature. We are natureš„¹
The teachings of plants are vast, so I would love to know if there is something you have learned from nature!!
Iāll go first! I used to be a perfectionist, it had to be all or nothing. If I failed once then it was the end of the world. My adhd didnāt help, if I lost my streak then I might as well give up on the whole thing. But then, one day I started taking care of my garden and I was surprised at how fast it bloom and recover from months of isolation. If one day I forgot to water my plants or if I was to tired because of my back pain, it didnāt matter, I could always start all over again
Iām actually tearing up lol but it was a life-changing moment. It didnāt matter if I fell, I could always bloom again once I started taking care of myselfā¤ļøāš©¹
lizzyy commented on silkcaramel's update
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Fantasy Starter Pack Vol II
Champion: Finished 5 Side Quest books.
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Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants
Robin Wall Kimmerer
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One Bad Mother: In Praise of Psycho Housewives, Stage Parents, Momfluencers, and Other Women We Love to Hate
Ej Dickson
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One Bad Mother: In Praise of Psycho Housewives, Stage Parents, Momfluencers, and Other Women We Love to Hate
Ej Dickson
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One Bad Mother: In Praise of Psycho Housewives, Stage Parents, Momfluencers, and Other Women We Love to Hate
Ej Dickson
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Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants
Robin Wall Kimmerer
Post from the Plants, fungi, and trees - oh my! forum


While reading Braiding Sweetgrass, Kimmerer mentioned that:
In Native ways of knowing, human people are often referred to as āthe younger brothers of Creation.ā We say that humans have the least experience with how to live and thus the most to learnāwe must look to our teachers among the other species for guidance. Their wisdom is apparent in the way that they live. They teach us by example. Theyāve been on the earth far longer than we have been, and have had time to figure things out. They live both above and below ground, joining Skyworld to the earth. Plants know how to make food and medicine from light and water, and then they give it.
And I noticed that a lot of the books form this beautiful stunning quest revolve around how plants can help us understand ourselves and our environment better. And it left me thinking how we should be learning from plants and animals, we are not above nature. We are natureš„¹
The teachings of plants are vast, so I would love to know if there is something you have learned from nature!!
Iāll go first! I used to be a perfectionist, it had to be all or nothing. If I failed once then it was the end of the world. My adhd didnāt help, if I lost my streak then I might as well give up on the whole thing. But then, one day I started taking care of my garden and I was surprised at how fast it bloom and recover from months of isolation. If one day I forgot to water my plants or if I was to tired because of my back pain, it didnāt matter, I could always start all over again
Iām actually tearing up lol but it was a life-changing moment. It didnāt matter if I fell, I could always bloom again once I started taking care of myselfā¤ļøāš©¹
lizzyy commented on a post
umm the skywoman / eve comparison is shattering my mind right now
wish i couldāve been born never knowing the christian cult i was āchosenā to be a part of !!!!!!!
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Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants
Robin Wall Kimmerer
Post from the Motherland forum
Throughout the years, MamĆ” equipped me with a handbook of life lessons and tricks. But these stopped working as the country's tragic circumstances deepened.
WOW, this stopped me in my tracks while listening to the book. It's such a raw description of the realities of living in a country facing a tragedy. No matter how good you are as a parent, you can teach them how to survive a horrible regime. It left me thinking about the families of other countries going though wars/genocide/dictatorship and how there are mothers out there trying to equip their children with survival tools that might fail as things evolve):
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Motherland
Paula Ramón
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The Third Reich of Dreams: The Nightmares of a Nation
Charlotte Beradt
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In Defense of Plants: An Exploration into the Wonder of Plants
Matt Candeias
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In Defense of Plants: An Exploration into the Wonder of Plants
Matt Candeias
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Hi friends! It has been so fun to see you all joining this quest. I hope that this quest offers you both the classics that maybe you read or didn't read in school, but also, a lot of new, fresh voices and voices from different cultures and perspectives. I mentioned in my first post that I have a long, long list of options going, and I fully expect that this quest will expand to have all the badge tiers available to it. I think probably I will aim to add a few books quarterly, so a few every season, and those adds will be targeted and will themselves hopefully be relatively distinct from each other.
In my research for this quest, I learned a lot about the types of dystopian literature that folks have pointed to, and the categorization really depends on who you're asking, so while there are other categorization systems out there, I will share with you some info about the categorization system that I personally decided to use while I was working on the quest.
Not to be that bitch citing Wikipedia, but here we go. Wikipedia defines dystopian fiction (and utopian fiction) as being "sub-genres of speculative fiction that explore extreme forms of social and political structures." Wikipedia quotes Keith Booker's 1994 book The Dystopian Impulse in Modern Literature when it says that dystopian literature provides "fresh perspectives on problematic social and political practices that might otherwise be taken for granted or considered natural and inevitable." From Pamela Gosselin's 2002 Encyclopedia of Literature and Science, Wikipedia shares that "dystopias usually extrapolate elements of contemporary society, and thus can be read as political warnings," which definitely is how I typically take a dystopia, as a warning of how things can escalate and become more extreme.
As for the types... I saw this structure repeated a bunch of places, but felt like the explanations given in an article on the site "Films for Action", linked here gave me a framework that I personally liked, so went with that. The article introduces itself with this banger line, so I was sort of sold immediately: "The twentieth century saw four basic visions of hell on earth, or dystopia."
I want to note really quickly that not every author likes the dystopia label. Margaret Atwood prefers the term "speculative fiction." Very validatingly (I know it's not a word), she also stated that natural disasters and things like a pandemic are not true dystopias, as they were not intentionally and artificially arranged by a government, so that does make me feel a little more confident in not including works that are purely post-apocalyptic. Rivers Solomon also noted that in referring to their work that is in this quest, An Unkindness of Ghosts, as dystopian could soften the impact, as it was based on real events. What I will say is that for me, dystopia does not necessarily mean fictional. This quest is fictional works, but many works of dystopian literature include actions perpetrated by real governments. I personally think that dystopian literature is so effective because of its underlying basis in reality.
But anyway, getting back to the types... Here are the types within this framework (again, there are other frameworks, but I liked this one) that I tried to categorize the works in our quest into, and what they're all about. They are named after people who are considered leaders in those genres or those who wrote kind of the ultimate prototype of that type from the 20th century, though I want to note that for some, there were actually examples of that type that pre-date that author's work. They are... Orwellian, Huxleyan, Kafkaesque, and Phildickian.
Orwellian: these are characterized by authoritarian, totalitarian rule, often militarized, with elevation of a specific group, i.e. "The Party." Surveillance, repression of speech/dissent, and just like, really intense control over the lives of everyone, or of a specific group (minorities of race, ethnicity, sexuality, and trans folks and women, etc. usually), living within that society. Policing of language is also often very prevalent. 1984 by George Orwell is a key example (though I will note that there are works that fall under this category that pre-date Orwell, but I will still include them in this group!).
Huxleyan: These sometimes are "seeming utopias." They tend to be labeled "soft" dystopias compared to the Orwellian ones. Often there will be a stratification of social class or hierarchy. Control in these societies is exerted differently - not by violence and fear, but by desire, debt, narcotics, and other overwhelming-the-senses/removing of pain types of things.
Kafkaesque: Rule by bureaucracy and endless red tape. These are often satires of government or workplaces. People are controlled by a barrage of paperwork, by the belief that if they just follow the rules their needs will be met.
Phildickian: These societies rule over their members by replacing the real world with a virtual or abstract version of reality for them to live within. Often people are very numbed-out to the horrors going on IRL and spend their waking hours plugged into the alternative, more comfortable reality that has been provided to them. These alt realities also function as a tool for surveillance.
Now, there are other categorizations you might see as well. Common labels include "reproductive (or patriarchal) dystopia," "corporate dystopia," "environmental (or ecological) dystopia," and "religious dystopia." A lot of my searches also differentiated YA dystopias as being a bit different, as they often focus on rebellion specifically. I considered those as well, but most of the books still exhibit at least some dominant traits that align with the core 4 categories above.
Popular themes that pop up in all 4 categories include things like loss of identity, forced conformity, censorship, and surveillance. We also sometimes see competitions or the use of a lower social class as entertainment for a higher one, and often these competitions include the possibility of death. Use of propaganda and changing language also pop up a lot. As does... wait for it... hyper-capitalism and corporate influence, either operating in tandem with governments or sometimes, a government has collapsed and now the company has dominant social control. Imperialism, colonialism, and slavery/indentured servitude are also often explored. Class divisions are explored a lot, too! Some of our books included do have a post-apocalyptic element, also, I just tried to be specific about including ones that show a dystopian society either creating that post-apocalyptic event, or an authoritarian or corporate control type of response to the post-apocalyptic event.
So, which books fit into which categories? I will update this as books are added, so that this can continue to be a reference to you, but here is how I categorized them, with Orwellian being the most popular category both in the books selected, but in the literature at large. Some books did not fit perfectly but contained enough similarities that I included them in that category. This categorization is not a perfect science, but just a jumping-off point for discussion.
Orwellian/Primarily Orwellian Books in Our Quest
Huxleyan/Primarily Huxleyan Books in Our Quest
Kafkaesque/Primarily Kafkaesque Books in Our Quest
Phildickian/Primarily Phildickian Books in Our Quest
Combos!!! Many books display strong traits from a mix of categories.
Kafkaesque and Huxleyan Combo
Orwellian and Phildickian Combo
Orwellian and Huxleyan Combo
Orwellian and Kafkaesque Combo
Huxleyan and Phildickian Combo
Immaculate Conception by Ling Ling Huang The Membranes by Chi Ta-wei
SO, now that I have info-dumped on you, I would love to know what you think about all of this! Do you find yourself gravitating toward a specific category? Are you interested to dive deeper into one of these categories?